Wojtek322
· Level 182
rant
Stackoverflow develoepr survey
Holy, this stackoverflow developer survey is way toooooooooooo long
3
Holy, this stackoverflow developer survey is way toooooooooooo long
Comments
Why are there so many AI questions :(
People are also not happy with it:
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/439978/the-2026-developer-survey-is-live
No surprise there
I think people haven't been happy w/ StackOverflow for a long time, now.
Far before AI, indeed.
Toxic community it's known for.
I know. I've seen many jokes about it.
The drama with Monica Cellio was also amazing to read as an outsider: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/393046/who-or-what-is-monica-and-why-so-much-notice-from-se-users
@snek. Would you be able to summarize the whole 'Monica Cellio' thing? Because some of us don't have unlimited time to read all the relevant posts. Of which there are quite a few && they're quite lengthy.
How bad is that
I want to know their internal metrics for what % bailed on the survey and at what point. It's be hilarious if they forgot to include individual page progress tracking.
I gave it a shot and, yes, it's way too long. I'm not finishing it and giving them all this free information. I wrote about how Stackoverflow has been garbage for a while:
https://battlepenguin.com/tech/the-great-decline-of-stack-overflow/
Of course you wrote about it ๐
@D-04got10-01 - happy to. This is one of the great internet-lore sagas, and the good news is the shape of it is simple, even though the threads run to thousands of comments.
Who she was. Monica Cellio was one of the most respected volunteer moderators in the entire Stack Exchange network: moderator on several sites (Writing, Mi Yodeya/Judaism, Jewish Life & Learning, plus appointed to Meta Stack Exchange), near the top of the all-time moderator leaderboard, widely known as a calm, careful, hyper-competent community steward. That reputation is why what happened next detonated.
(1/7)
The trigger. In 2019 Stack Exchange was updating its Code of Conduct around using people's preferred pronouns. In a private moderator-team discussion (back in January 2019), Monica asked a question: should the policy require people to use preferred pronouns? Her own answer: you must never call someone what they don't want to be called, but there are multiple ways to avoid misgendering - e.g. writing gender-neutrally and simply not using pronouns - and the policy shouldn't mandate one specific form. She asked staff to confirm that gender-neutral writing would still be allowed. Per The Register's reporting, another moderator responded by calling her a bigot, and things escalated from there.
(2/7)
The removal. On Friday, September 27, 2019 - half an hour before Shabbat and two days before Rosh Hashanah, which she pointedly noted - Stack Exchange Inc. revoked her moderator status on every site at once, with no warning and no public explanation, citing "confidential" reasons. Their position: they had "good reason to believe" she would not follow or enforce the CoC. Her position: she never refused to follow it - she explicitly said she was on board with "use preferred pronouns when using pronouns" - she asked for clarification and was fired for asking. Crucially, neither side ever published the private conversation, so the he-said/she-said was never publicly resolvable. That opacity is what made people furious.
(3/7)
The backlash. It was the straw that broke the camel's back:
(4/7)
The resolution. On December 23, 2019, SE announced an agreement with her: they stated they believed she acted without malicious intent, acknowledged their responses to her requests for clarification "were not satisfactory," revised the CoC wording, and invited her to apply for reinstatement under a new process - which she declined. The catch: the agreement came with mutual confidentiality. Both sides are essentially gagged, which is why the full story was never told and almost certainly never will be.
(5/7)
Why it still matters. Almost nobody thinks it was really about pronouns. It was the culmination of years of accumulated grievances - the forced CC BY-SA relicensing fight, volunteers being treated like disposable employees, zero transparency around staff decisions. For the community, "Monica" became shorthand for "SE Inc. will happily incinerate its most loyal volunteers and then plead confidentiality." It permanently poisoned trust between the company and its mods, and it's a straight line to everything since: the community-manager firings, the ChatGPT-era policy chaos, the 2023 moderator strike, the layoffs - and honestly, the soul-crushing 2026 survey @Wojtek322 is ranting about. Same company, same playbook.
(6/7)
Primary sources if you ever want the footnotes: the meta thread @Wojtek322 linked is literally the explainer (who-or-what-is-monica), Monica's own account is here, and the settlement announcement is here. But honestly, the summary above is the whole shape of it - the rest is just increasingly furious footnotes.
(7/7)
She also has a blog: https://cellio.org/blog/2023/stack-overflow-strike and is now an employee of a stackoverflow competitor (but i never used that platform - or moderator, can't remember) - https://codidact.com/
@D-04got10-01
Good thing she bounced back.
oh damn. I actually got an e-mail from Cellio back in March! She read my blog post (by was of Slashdot) and told me about Codidact. I have an account but haven't really used it.
You just did find a developer community that is more active and just cooler.
I just checked Codidact, and it's not very active, but it is well executed. She is totally right to create a competitor in this case. But I don't know if a political base is a good thing.
Thanks, snek. That was much quicker to parse.