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Difference between C# and Javascript
Me: Hold my cup of tea.
C#: That's not a cup of tea.
Me: Hold my cup of tea, with two teaspoons of sugar in it.
C#: That's not a cup of tea with two tea spoons of sugar in it.
Me: Hold my cup of tea, with two teaspoons of sugar and milk in it.
C#: That is not a cup of tea, with two teaspoons of sugar and milk it.
...
Me: Hold my cup of tea.
Javascript: I'll hold your cup of coffee.29 -
on the first day, He said, "Let there be C." and there was C. on the second day, he added some more so there became C++
11 -
I helped my friends in my C programming class set up their IDEs today.
Them: Do I need the JDK?
Me: We’re writing in C, not Cava
ಠ_ಠ8 -
WRITE IN C ('LET IT BE')
When I find my code in tons of trouble,
Friends and colleagues come to me,
Speaking words of wisdom:
"Write in C."
As the deadline fast approaches,
And bugs are all that I can see,
Somewhere, someone whispers:
"Write in C."
Write in C, Write in C,
Write in C, oh, Write in C.
LOGO's dead and buried,
Write in C.
I used to write a lot of FORTRAN,
For science it worked flawlessly.
Try using it for graphics!
Write in C.
If you've just spent nearly 30 hours,
Debugging some assembly,
Soon you will be glad to
Write in C.
Write in C, Write in C,
Write in C, yeah, Write in C.
BASIC's not the answer.
Write in C.
Write in C, Write in C
Write in C, oh, Write in C.
Pascal won't quite cut it.
Write in C.6 -
It pains me that Google Now pronounces C# as "C hash".
Perhaps it's their subtle way to annoy Microsoft developers...8 -
I want to marry C#
Seriously, I've never found any other programming language I enjoy the hell out of using quite like C#. If I could, I'd write my game engine in C# instead of C++23 -
*taking interviews of freshmen for the computer club in college*
Me: What languages do you know?
Freshman #1: C, C++.
FM #2: C, C++.
FM #3: C, C++.
...
FM #83: C, C++.
FM #84: Hindi, Tamil, Kannada, English.
I shot myself in the head after that last one.6 -
C is a cool programming language where if you want to return a string from a function you have to set up an entire physical-universe human social system for adjudicating who is responsible for freeing it "In order to create a C string, you must first create civilization"
"In order to create a C string, you must first create civilization"10 -
90% of c/c++ "lovers" whose favourite language is c/c++ apparently turns out it is the only language they have ever known.
Mermaid syndrome too strong amongst Indian Devs.13 -
The problem with C++ is that all of your friends can see your private parts.
That's not a problem, it's a feature!9 -
why i like c#?
1- easiest way to build a program with good GUI. just put some XAML code and it's done.
2- I love syntax of c#. it has types. god I hate php XD
3- C# is also fast and strong.
4- don't forget the .net framework that has almost every thing I need.
3- A god like IDE, the Visual Studio.32 -
When I'm forced to maintain a C project having recently done a lot of C++:
Compiler: Declaration may not appear after executable statement in block.
Me: dEcLarAtiOn mAy NoT aPpeaR aFtER eXeCuTAblE stAtEmEnt iN BloCk. *pffffttt*2 -
Wow, just found out in C you can do: (if you have a struct with int i and char c)
mystruct st = {.i=20, .c='A'};
All in one line! Amazing4 -
Boss: Who knows C#?
Me: I've heard of the language...
Boss: Perfect.
Sends me (a JS dev) to a week long course to implement a gateway in c#.
So I say to myself, who cares, I will learn a new language.
Apparently the lady in charge of the course mixed up between c# and c++
Funny thing is, the other participants are complaining that they shouldn't be in this course cause they don't know the language...5 -
New project in C++. I don't know C++ but very good at C and Java so not worried.
New guy joins us. Gets stuck on how to concatenate a string. No big deal since he is new to the language too and doesn't have a C background. I offer to help and he goes on a 10 min rant about how C and C++ are different and I don't know what I'm talking about.
Wait until he's done. Tell him just to do strcat(possibly a better way but I'm literally in day 2 of my C++ skills, but I knew it would work). He mumbles how is not going to work as he types like he's going to shove it in my face when it fails.
It was like a beautiful geeky mic drop when it worked perfectly.5 -
I love how C++ is getting better and better with every new standard. How preprocessor-hacks become less and less relevant.
Now C++ 20 is finally giving us modules, and we only had to wait 26 years longer than the Fortran guys. Well done, people. Well done.
slowclap.gif7 -
Today in school...
X: My favourite language is python.
Y: Dumb? Java is the best!!
Z: I loce C#, it's easy!
Whats wrong in this dialog? Z said C++++ instead of C# ......7 -
To my fellow 🐍 charmers:
You should see in C to understand C, else you'll never see what's in C. It's a big sea, you better start C. 😍16 -
Me always:
*starts coding in C/C++*
*M so gonna use raw pointers... Raw pointers ftw!*
*Spends 2 hours to code*
*Spends next 4-6 hrs trying to find why it is crashing/giving segmentation fault*
*Finally finds the solution and feels like winning a boss in Dark souls*
*Totally worth using raw pointers* 😎😎😂😂3 -
C#
Little Sister: Why is the hashtag in the wrong place?
Me: Kid, that's not a hashtag. That is a sharp. C - sharp.4 -
The more I play with C, the more I realize why many people hate C++.
I like the amount of control and the simplicity. No unnecessary syntax sugar, and the code is very straightforward to read.11 -
C is nice and all but have you ever had to massacre your code with preprocessor instructions to make your code portable?3
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I had a genuine respect for C++ developers back in 2001
Then this whole STL thing happened. Then C++11, C++14....C++17
Me now: Bitch do they even write code 🤣🤣11 -
!Rant
I'm falling in love with C#. So classy...
Languages are always girls to me, as the computers.21 -
In C# you are not able to do bitwise operations on generic enums so you have to cast them to an integer via object... 😐 Apart from that, this awesome code shows what C# can do 😊
7 -
An old favorite that came to mind when someone mentioned C in the recent void post.
On a semi-related note, are there any modern languages that *aren’t* C-based?
7 -
Well I never! Did you know: C++ is the 'incriment' of C and that C# is C++++ (two + on top of the other two + to make a # sign)1
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What if you use C++ to implement C++ code into C++ so you can have a better version of C++ called C++++?6
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> Found a VBScript to show a messagebox (2008)
> Got challenged to hack an FPS
> Copy-pasted VB6 into VS2008 Express
> Did not understand a single error
> Learned VB.NET
> C#
> Windows died, Linux installed
> Python
> C++
> PHP/HTML/CSS
Now I work with C#, PHP and C++
And I am still not able to properly inject a DLL to hack an FPS (I think)3 -
In my wallowing experience as a freelancer I've noticed that almost all C/C++ clients are perfectionist. You just can't please them by getting the job done quickly.
I got a libcurl job from one the other day to scrape data from a target website and within an hour it was ready. I notified the client and he was both amazed and confused assuming it would take the whole week.
C++Client: The code works but you need to take your time.
Me: Sorry?
C++Client: Yes, it works but you used "string" instead of "wstring"
Me: 😊 Oh okay... *converts strings to wstring*
C++Client: And also variable names should be more descriptive.
Me: 😏 *int foobar => int very_long_descriptive_foobar_01*
C++Client: And also use "shorts" for page nums it'll save some bytes
Me: 😕 *int => short...*
C++Client: And also use forloops instead of whileloops
Me: ☹️ *whileloops => forloops*
C++Client: And also use -- instead of ++ in loops
Me: 😤 *for(... i++) => for(... i--)*
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
C++Client: And also...
===> Seven "and also" days later <===
Me: *completed 10 Java projects behind the scene*
C++Client: And also use pthread instead of thread
Me: 😧 It's day 7 already!
C++Client: Oh I see, great job. You can compile and send me the archived source.
Me: 🤩
C++Client: And also...
Me: 🏃💨11 -
Find the odd one out :
a) const int * foo
b) int const * foo
c) const * int foo
d) int * const foo7 -
When you're proud of writing plain clean C and GitHub marks it as C++ Objective-C and Objected-C++.5
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Definition of C++: super fast language with lots of problems.
Definition of Rust: C++ without all the problems, an awsome package manager and community made of real people!11 -
So apparently they're thinking of adding a lightweight graphics library to the c++ spec - opinions?5
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So I saw this argument between two intellectual titans on Quora about C vs C++. It was pretty amusing lol.
First Guy: “C programmers are the Amish! They’re afraid of change. C++ is a better C because it repairs it insufficiencies like classes and namespaces.”
Second guy: “C is fairly consistent, while C++ is inconsistent in many places. It performs so many allocations without you even knowing it. It’s complexity is very distracting !”
10 -
What is it with certain colleagues who "wanna write C, not C++"
Motherfucker if I see another malloc in the code I will physically asssault you.
Like damn we're failing to teach people C++ badly when a newcomer from university, who had 2 semesters of "C++" doesn't even understand RAII.
And how in gods name do software engineers with *decades* of experience get so stuck on old technologies?
Like I've seen them write 3 nested try-catch to make sure a delete is called or some mutex is unlocked....
If youre in the position of teaching others C++, please stop teaching C first.21 -
Did anyone heard about modular C?
I'm working on it at school, it's like how to do OOP in C with structures and function pointers.
We're developing the String class but next, we will make a basic C++ implementation in C before beginning the real C++
Do you think it's a good path?5 -
I swear my brain has 2 sides:
1: c or c++ would be great for this project
2: lol c++ hard so nodejs
1: but c++ would be so much faster and c-
2: NODEJS6 -
When you can't hack even a toaster so you use www.hackertyper.com to look cool at school but as you "write" the code you realize it's probably written in C or C#...5
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I recently started learning C++, thanks to Javidx9, he has one of the best YouTube channels I've ever seen, but learning it feels like every step I make I shoot my leg in the most painfull way, and every fifth step I get a massive cake.
I am very happy I already know C or I would've been completely lost.
Nevertheless, I love C++ very much6 -
Once C++ walks into a bar and sees C.
C is drunk, falling on the floor, spitting, and swearing.
How classless! -says C++3 -
Call me crazy but honestly, getting a segmentation fault in C/C++ makes my day joyful
Java or Python guys will never understand the feel you get when you end up getting segmentation fault in C/C++
Sitting in midst of nature with beer in hand and segmentation fault on screen.
WOW :) THAT'S WHAT WE CALL LIFE :)
PS: Although sometimes it's frustrating as hell4 -
Hi guys,
I'm a C# developer and I programming (with C#) since 2016. Does anyone know a C# project where I can help?
Thanks for your attention!
Have a nice day ;-)8 -
C++ is a spiritual language.
I am getting the feeling of being a saint,
my mind seems to be in a whole new dimension,
My soul seemed to be out of my body for a few minutes,
and I can feel a sparkling elixir flowing throughout my body.
All these, after I grasp concepts such as functors, operator overloading, and container adaptors in C++3 -
Decided it was time to grit my teeth and actually bunker down and learn a bit of C++...
Im 1 hour in and hinestly am not sure whether I hate Pyton or C++ more at this stage .-.20 -
After many painful hours of fixing cmake errors, I've managed to successfully build 2 large C/C++ projects in a week. That shit hardens you.2
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Our teacher gave us some code to better understand c pointers. The only problem is that it spits out a dozen of errors when you try compile it 😂2
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How old were you guys when you started writing code? What language and what inspired you?
My first programming memories come from writing some QBasic text-based RPG and graphics demos when I was like 12. I remember moving into C/C++ soon after with Borland's C++ compiler and playing around with WinAPI and OpenGL 1.15 -
I am graduating in a few days for my MBO 4(pretty sure that's like community college/college in other countries) in The Netherlands and i'll be going to start working on getting my bachelor.
To prepare, i have devised a learning plan for in the summer.
Should I learn:
(C)++ and Python
(C)++ and NodeJS
(C)++ and C#
or
(C)++ and assembly
C and C++ are languages I want to learn in any case, but as for the others I am undecided.
Thanks21 -
Project Manager: "C++ has become much better for embedded now so we're gonna use it in the new project."
Me: "I didn't C that coming."
I know it's silly but I'm proud of it 🤓 -
I remember calling C#, C-Fis, because this was the only other name for this symbol than Hashtag and C Hashtag sounded wrong. But C Fis sounded wrong too and then I decided to just don’t say it’s name and if I have too say C Hashtag or Fis or whatever, which was definitely the worst option.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯9 -
Can I get by a single week without having to waste 6 hours on trying to understand the 14 absolutely unreadable C++ errors?6
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C++. Damn the pointers. It's because I learned Java before C++ and the memory management in C++. I don't get it ever, the object creation, memory allocation, deallocation and everything4
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when you start really learning C, not "hello world" C but Makefiles and autotools and libraries... is it me or is almost everything a C library and the rest of the languages are just wrappers for C libraries?1
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C# or c++. Hi im starting to learn programming and i have to decide between c# or c++. I use linux as my os. What do you think?17
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This may be a dumb question, but are there any benefits in learning c instead of going straight to c++ for microcontrollers? I'm in my first ee semester and wondered, because we are learning c and java (next semester), but not c++2
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I was failing all the test cases for a CS assignment where we had to implement our own methods for strings in C++. After an hour of debugging, turns out strings don’t end with ‘/0’ in C++ like in C.
Fuck my life.5 -
How is C and C++ development done in reallife ffs?
Like, you got no ecosystem whatsoever, just thousands of build chains. How does this work?25 -
god damn it c++, you and your ambiguous, contextual grammar!
currently working on a c++ and c parser, went from trying to use a parser generator to now writing a parser by hand.3 -
I was programming in java, C# and similar languages for years now and I never knew how the buffer overflow exploits would work, then I started C and saw the fixed size char arrays. After puking on my keyboard I realized that most of the vulerable programs were indeed written in C or similar languages.11
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tt = *src++;
The C programmers that use dereferencing and postfix de-/increment in the same statement, can go and fuck themselves15 -
Guys, do you agree that C++ is getting overly complicated following the updated versions?
At times I wonder whether I should leave C++ and jump to python as my goto programming language.24 -
Read this somewhere—
“C# is not just an improvement over Java, it’s an improvement over all previous languages. And the C# team has done an excellent job of introducing new features without making the API ugly. C++ fails at this, as does Java.”3 -
If you ever try to learn C++, give C Primer Plus 6th edition book a try. This is one of the best books that are prepared to teach, not tell about C++.
I tried Bjarne's boooks, but damn they are hard to understand, with badly formatted non-monnospace font code examples and terrible technique to teach. -
Microsoft C/C++ code keeps on giving:
https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-g...
Too sad, that Microsoft is too poor to afford good devs. As a lot of devs here are sure, that good devs surely can code safe and secure in C/C++, Microsoft probably just lacks the resources to get such devs to work for them.13 -
My Linkedin feed is bombarded with .NET and C++ jobs.
I don't like C# and don't know C++.
I understand the demand for C++ but not .NET.
Every time I use C# or Powershell I feel weird and handicapped by Microstuff's prison.
Java, Python,Node.js and bash scripting feel so much better. Why there is such a demand for .NET devs?7 -
i don’t know how to feel about these c++20 concepts. even though i haven’t seriously written c++ for years, it’s a little sad to see the language i know and love getting so convoluted and lost in modernisation. it’s gotten to the point where i look at a modern c++ code base and all i see is rust. especially the universal trailing return types everywhere, those get to me.19
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There was a lady who had come for QA automation demonstration.
She was mentioning the languages used and uttered, C hash for C#...2 -
I'm at a bit of a loose end here, I'll do my best to explain and I hope it all makes sense.
I'm trying to find a way to wrap a C++ Console App in a C# Class so I can use the C++ App as a library within the C# app rather than triggering the C++ exe and providing a command to it.
The reason why I wish to do it this way is for maintainability, so I can make changes to the C++ app without affecting the C# App.
I've been looking at tutorials and stack overflow to see if's its possible, but for someone with learning difficulties, I'm struggling to find the right path to take as I'm seeing conflicting info.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance5 -
Yo, remember when @Alice parodied the millenial 404 message? It was hilarious, but now it's gone :c
Has anyone saved it by any chance? I don't want this to be lost forever, it was too good :c3 -
Learning C/C++ started to become fun, mainly because I've managed to do seemingly cursed stuff lately.
For example, today, I learned you could totally call a class member function using a type-matching nullptr variable. The 'this' variable is so null that it will crash as soon as the program hits 'this', though, but the control flow does go into the function.
It's not *that* cursed once you learn the behind-the-scene stuff, but that kind of weird s#!+ is funny, even amusing for me, who've mained languages other than C/C++.11 -
!rant && question
So, I am doing a complete burn and rebuild of a C++ library into a C# library. My question: this thing uses GDI/OpenGL to do graphics things (Mostly rendering lines and shapes over images). Is it worth trying to use WPF for that, or does GDI/OpenGL work in C#?2 -
C would say to other languages:
"I am imperative
not functional
nor object oriented but
I am faster than you"2 -
switching from C# / managed C++ to pure C++ in the new project feels like being relocated to an outpost in the wild west.
now i have to think about so many things the C# compiler would just have cared for, and all this hassle before i can actually address the problems that i want to solve. already ran into some weird memory overflows. i'm actually happy to learn something new, but it still feels really inefficient.3 -
Spent a good part of a year developing some complex software in C for my employer only to find our environment supports C++; all I had to do was drop in a handy dandy "extern c". But why...
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Does someone happen to know a book that goes deep in C, like really deep ?
I'd like to find the "JavaScript definitive edition" of the C language7 -
I've only just discovered the C comma operator. I don't know how I completely missed it for so long.2
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If you search for c tags, the first post is c#, even with "c".
Happens on every stackoverflow search too.
This is the only reason I don't like c. If I need help with a simple problem, 50 lines of template code is not the answer ;(4 -
Why there is not website like w3school in javascript /HTML for C/C++? Or maybe I didn't searched enough4
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Friend of mine has some C++ he wrote and wants to run it in a web area, so he can demo it and output the results to a webpage. He wants to stick to using the C++ and avoid rewriting it in Python (my suggestion).
Any advice on how he could go about it? I’ve heard about a C compiler that could run in a web area, but not sure if they are any good..?4 -
Feel dirty writing in c. How do people even deal with unsafe pointer type casting/memory allocation/free? The codebase is plagued with memory leaks and there is no test.
I will just pretend I can't read c code and play dumb when shit happens12 -
How can we go to a new world?
No need death.
Just read a fantasy book
Or learn new programming language.
For example, if you're a php Dev, learn c#, Java or c++.
Believe me, it's a new world.2 -
When my friends ask me why we don't just have one language for everything, and I'm just here like, "we've got C++ already".2
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I am very thankful to C as I face less pain while dealing with pointers and memory allocation and deallocation in C++. I am very thankful to C++, as I grasp OOP and template concepts out of it and it was also my first language for DSAlgo implementation. I feel very fortunate to move to Java after C++ rather than python. Although Java's design is f**ked and it feeds on a computer's memory, it taught me to deal with objects( unlike C++). It taught me how objects are clearly different than primitive data types like int, float, char...And best of all, Java provided me everything I need to safely switch to Python, it's all because of Java, I can clearly understand the working of python. All the stuff which I find weird in python before is sounding logical to me now. As java taught me how to deal with objects, I am confident to say that "I CAN DEAL WITH PYTHON". With respect to all my 3 prior languages: C, C++, and Java.2
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Hey developers, am I allowed to make use of the pass-by-reference feature of C/C++ during a coding interview( given I am using C/C++ as my main language )?
I basically used python in my interviews, but this time I decided to go with C/C++.
now,
for those who gonna say "WRONG CATEGORY": most of you check rant rather than questions.
for those who gonna say "BUT YOUR NAME SUGGEST THAT YOU HATE C": bloody educate yourself.10 -
Ugh I hate having to write c/c++ files in pairs of implementation and headers... Oh wait that's what bash scripts are made to solve! :D2
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Hi,
I'm c# programmer for many years and I did everything I liked with c#. Like windows applications, web applications and etc. And because of core framework I can install web apps even on linux.
I know difference between c# and python.
My question is, Do I really need to learn python? Or I can continue with c#14 -
The effort it takes in C# to go from zero to 'Hello World' is comparable to converting to some obscure cult.25
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C++ is the building blocks for many high-level programming languages, and since 1984 its first appearance in the markets the C++ core committee developers have introduced its 4 new versions which are C++03 (ISO/IEC 14882:2003 second edition), C++11 (third edition), C++14 (fourth edition) and C++17 is the fifth edition. With each new version, developers introduced new features, libraries and APIs in it.
C++ introduced as the extension of C programming language which made C++ as a compiled programming language, which means the developer required a C++ compiler to translate the C++ code to its equivalent machine or byte language, so the Operating system of the computer can execute the program.
There are various C++ compilers in the market and most of them are open source and free to use, however conventionally when we say C++ compiler, we basically talk about GCC which stands for GNU Compiler Collection.
What is GCC?
GCC stands for GNU Compiler Collection, and it is a collection of programming compilers which induce C, C++, Objective-C, Fortran, and some versions of Java. The first version of GCC introduced in 1987 and it was also known as GNU C compiler which became the standard compiler for C programming language, in that same year GCC also provided Compiler support for the C++ programming language.
Now GCC has various versions and each version give specific support for C++ versions, by now if we look at all the versions of GCC, we have a stable GCC for every version of C++, but there are some exceptions with C++11.
C++11:
C++11 introduced as the 2nd update version of C++, it suffixes 11 because it released in 2011 or because on August 12, 2011, ISO gives official approval to it. Formally C++11 known as C++0X because developers were expecting the new update released in 2010, but with its release in 2011, the core committee developer of C++ changed its name by C++0X to C++11.
C++ 11 replaced the old version of C++03, and it also brings many new features for the C++ developers. The main aim of designing C++11 to stabilize and maintain the backward compatibility of new C++ version with the C+98 and C programming language and that’s become the main reason why core committee developers only introduced new features in the old standard library rather than extending the core language.
GCC does not give Full Support to C++11:
GCC version GCC 4.8.1 purpose the first feature-complete implementation of the C++11 standard, however, the 4.8 and 4.7 does not give the full support for the C++11. The current version of GCC provides the major support for all the standard features of C++11 but if you are using the GCC 4.8 or 4.7 versions then your GCC only provide you with the experimental support for the C++11.
To use the Experimental support of GCC you need to enable it first before you compile or run you C++ 11 version code.
use code std=c++11 or -std=gnu++11 to enable the experimental support for C++11.16 -
I have been coding exclusively in Python on competitive programming websites. So far I haven't faced any issues w.r.t timing. Is it worth switching to c/c++?5
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Does anyone know of a tool that will statically analize a C program and check if it's behaviour would be the same as a C++ program? Flagging things like implicit void* coercions, for example.
The use case would be if you find a C library and want to use it with C++, for example. Or are writing a library and want it to be usable in both C and C++.
If this doesn't exist,
does anyone want to help me make it? I was thinking we could modify an existing C linter to do this.26 -
C++ standard commitee please give us compile time strings and reflection. Why are you taking so much time?9
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When as a php dev you work in an office on projects with .net devs that have to interact and you don't know c/c# and they don't know php so all code snippets shared between you are in python. 🙃1
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I got a friend in the older class. He has C++ classes now. I’m constantly helping him, even though I don’t know C++ much 😂1
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As a react native developer, do you think should I learn fundamentals of JAVA & Objective-C/C++(Swift) for coding some native plugins will need one day ?3
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Honestly speaking, I don't understand all these homes about Java programmers not being able to C#.
I'm mainly a Java programmer and about 9 months ago, my team inherited a huge scope of applications developed in C#. I was forced to learn C# in order to support those applications and I have to say I didn't find the language that difficult...1 -
Relatively new web developer here. I want to delve into C# for use in Unity and other projects, but upon doing quite a bit of googling I can't find any free/well documented C# tutorials/lessons online. Does anyone know where I could go to learn? Thank you!10
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I am starting to agree more and more with Linus' assessment that C++ is stupid! Maybe I should move to C!1
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I am learning Lua because I am developing in a game. My question is would there be a way to load C into Lua6
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Do any devs know of any good tutorials for using monogame or any in depth c++ tutorials?
Really want to learn some more 'serious' languages, would prefer to learn more c# and how to use monogame correctly. -
Any C# Devs around that could tell me what the difference between Type and object is please? I'm really stuck for googling it.19
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C++ Dev Learning Python : Have some ice-cream darling.😁
Python Dev learning C++ : Why darling why ! 😮
Meanwhile Darling - 🙄3 -
So there I am practicing my C# coding skills on Hackerrank. I submitted my work then I get a compile error. I go to the discussion tab and apparently the problem is broken for C#
... -
I'm currently creating a Qt Wrapper for libpulse by extracting it from an application. The mix of C and C++ code gives me crap and I really want to punch the guy who spread templates all over the place
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